| Author | Message | ||
     Lisa Emery Username: Lisae Registered: 02-2010 |
Gosh Tara, that sounds awful, a nasty injury, do hope you are recovering well. Lisa | ||
| Tara Hill Username: Tarahill Registered: 05-2009 |
Hi Philippa, I'm afraid the project has been put on hold until the autumn. Had a spill off my Mum's horse on January 3rd and now have two plates & 19 screws attaching my ankle back to my leg! Driving the ponies unfortunatly has taken a back seat for now. Tara | ||
| Philippa Ellen Username: Philippae Registered: 03-2010 |
Any progress on this?  | ||
| Tara Hill Username: Tarahill Registered: 05-2009 |
"I am sure if someone built a lightweight carbon fibre or aluminium one I would love it and so would Mable but we would never be able to afford it!!! Nicolette" Am in discussions about just such a carriage (if successful to be retailed at a reasonable price), so as I said before Nicolette.... watch this space! ;-) | ||
| Nicolette Hughes Username: Nicolettepurple Registered: 03-2010 |
Sorry, our carriage is a Rene Schoop, if you want to see what it looks like go to Aprils edition of Carriage driving, they are on the front cover or the carriage driving calendar for 2011, again April! We had drag issues even in our lovely 2 wheeler, our yard menage is not well maintained and is deep and often waterlogged, another venue (my daughters college) has a menage with large pieces of rubber and sand and that is also hard going). Fine in cushiontrack, sand, small rubber and sand only arenas. Our vehicle has extending axles and we have been extremely pleased with it! I am sure if someone built a lightweight carbon fibre or aluminium one I would love it and so would Mable but we would never be able to afford it!!! Nicolette | ||
| Liz Howe Username: Lizh Registered: 10-2007 |
Nicolette - thank you for your kind offer. You did not say what make you carriage is? What concerns me though is when you say you would not want to use your carriage on a deep surface. In my area, there are many events, training sessions etc. on a wide variety of surfaces, sand, rubber and plastic. Some of these are maintained better than others admittedly, and sometimes we drive on an artificial surface outdoors so also have to contend with rain. I would not want a carriage that I could not use at my favourite venues. My current 2 wheelers (Ken Jackson and a Bellcrown) go superbly on any surface with no unacceptable effort required from my pony. The two carriages have been used for 33" and 37" Shetlands. It would be very frustrating to have to transport pony and carriage past a local event to compete at an event in the next county just because it would suit the carriage better. Martin - thank for your web link, I have had a quick look at carriages relating to Shetlands but have not found one with correct track width for IHDT (125cm), they all seem to be 110mm wide. Perhaps I am not looking hard enough? I quite agree with what you say about 'ever increasing reports of accidents involving structural failure' it was only recently that a friend of mine had an accident with a carriage worked on by so called 'professional carriage builders'. I guess the cowboy builders are out there and carriage driving is no exception. I am with Tara in as much as I do believe there is a market for a dedicated 4 wheel IHDT carriage for small ponies which will operate on all artificial surfaces. In the meantime I will continue to enjoy my two wheelers. There have been some very interesting posts on this subject, thank you everyone. | ||
| Tara Hill Username: Tarahill Registered: 05-2009 |
With regard to your sentence "A previous post mentioned if lighter possible excessive sliding; In general terms when a carriage is sliding around you are losing momentum energy which then has to be gained again." I would like to make the following observation... I have witnessed many a horse (and larger pony) competiting in Indoor events where, when using vehicles that were to the correct weight (under HDT rules) were sliding around excessively! What (and it appears that this aspect is falling on deaf ears) I believe that both Liz and I are trying to get across is - if you scale the vehicles down to a SINGLE Shetland of 38" or UNDER. The rules of the BHDTA state that for a single horse, the minimum weight of the carriage must be 150kg (link for those who would like to check! https://www.horsedrivingtrials.co.uk/reference/rules/bhdta_rules_quick_reference. pdf ) So if you think of a single horse weighing 600kg is pulling a vehicle of 150kg with a driver and groom weighing 160kg, then he is only having to pull 310kg. Now think of a single Shetland weighing approx 200kg. Your vehicle (and I believe that the minimum on your site Martin is around the 99kg mark?) weights 90kg, plus your driver and backstepper of combined 160kg, means that your single Shetland is pulling 250kg.... more than his own bodyweight!!! This is where having a vehicle that is strong enough to cope with the punishing obstacle phase, yet light enough to help give some extra assistance is what we are calling for! And you can go on about fitness all you like - personally my animals are made fit for the job that they do (whether it be showing or Trials). | ||
| Martin Username: Ponyandcarriage Registered: 09-2010 |
Hi Liz You are welcome to visit our website www.ponyandcarriage.co.uk We are happy to have an input occasionally on the IDHT forum, but posts of overt recommendation of equipment etc. from us we feel would not be appropriate, but anyone is welcome to contact us. We would totally agree with your comments regarding excessively heavy carriages, it’s just in our experience too light is just as bad as too heavy. With indoor as far as we are aware there is no minimum carriage weight, the organiser has to make a judgement on whether the carriage is suitable! And we guess that judgement may well vary as the skills and speed of a competitor increase, being more demanding on carriages suitability. With outdoor, the minimum allowable weight is 90kg for ponies with good reason. As Nigel pointed out modern aluminium alloys and carbon fibre components can increase strength and reduce weight, but the manufacturing build costs involved tend to make the purchase price beyond that of most. It is a very large subject and at times a little contentious, carriage sales for instance in France Germany Holland etc. Are very large compared to the U.K and they do not on the whole have same reasoning of shaving the last kg of weight but concentrate on other areas of increasing their competitiveness. Weight reductions using normal materials can be achieved but can if not correct sacrifice on strength! As a customer would you be happy if A wheel buckles or breaks on the first season A spring breaks on the first season A turntable breaks on the first season and so on All of the above we hear of – not to mention the effects of these failures on your horse or pony as the incident happens and the possible end to a good driving pony and several years of hard work training and love. We would not wish to frighten anyone as carriage driving is a fantastic sport and hobby that we too participate in, but just urge caution to the new comer in placing too much emphasis on light weight. A previous post mentioned if lighter possible excessive sliding; In general terms when a carriage is sliding around you are losing momentum energy which then has to be gained again. | ||
| Nicolette Hughes Username: Nicolettepurple Registered: 03-2010 |
I just wanted to share with you a bit about our experiences, as I said we have a 38 inch sheltand pulling a correctly proportioned carriage, that weighs 96kg. Our shetland is fine on a good surface or on grass, in some menages that are deep we wouldnt ask her to drive on those, it would be too hard going. She is kept very fit in the summer and as fit as possible in the winter. I have talked to my daughters, (12 and 18) and they feel that if it was any lighter they would slide all over the place at the speed they go around obstacles! As it is now they can slide a bit. Yes the answer is slow down but if you want to do well and be competitive against much bigger ponies you can't slow down unless you have to for safetys sake. (also our pony doesnt want to slow down!!) Carriages do get hammered even with a shetland pulling, I wouldnt let my daughters drive a lighter one at speed. If anyone wanted to try their shetland to our 4 wheeler, we are In Essex and would be happy to give you a demo or let you try! We also did well with a 45kg 2 wheeler but at fast speed around obstacles and cones, they were occasionally in danger of tipping and had to slow down! | ||
| Liz Howe Username: Lizh Registered: 10-2007 |
Hello Martin - As a distributer of carriages, do you have a website so that we may see which four wheeler carriages are safe and suitable for single Shetlands. At the moment I am very happy with my 2 wheelers and so far have not yet seen a 4 wheeler that I would wish to put my 37" pony to. I would be interested to see what you would recommend, make, price, weight etc. I think most people driving competitively appreciate the need for a fit animal. But it still remains, that however fit your pony may be, if it is asked to pull a carriage that is too heavy, it could injure itself or become sour and not want to drive. Also, would it ever be possible to 'test drive' a carriage with ones own pony before purchasing? Please advise, thank you. | ||
| Tara Hill Username: Tarahill Registered: 05-2009 |
I hear what you're saying Martin, but we'll just have to agree to disagree on the subject of weight! There may be just the 4 wheeler that I'm looking for in the pipeline for production, so we're just going to have to wait and see on this one! | ||
| Martin Weare Username: Ponyandcarriage Registered: 09-2010 |
Hi As a distributor of carriages in both the U.K and Internationally we would most defiantly echo Nigel’s sentiments on safety, weight, build and design. In fact we have seen in the last few years an increasing and disturbing misconception of weight is everything - leading to an increase of carriages that are incorrectly sized for the Shetland pony or Horse, and or poor quality design build and materials used just to save a few kilograms. This in part may be why we seem to hear of ever increasing reports of accidents involving structural failure and stability turn over. Good design and build makes a lot of difference! Ever wondered why one carriage when you are pulling it around yourself can pull so much easier than another yet be heavier! There are numerous mechanical design reasons for this. A few important things that will make more difference than 10 - 20kg Plus. Practice - practice and training A good well fitted harness suited to your carriage design Equine fitness and suppleness A good back stepper! especially in terms of correctly knowing where and how to apply balance to the carriage, assisting the more speedy drivers. A strong well designed carriage | ||
| Philippa Ellen Username: Philippae Registered: 03-2010 |
Tara, check out the Fenix carriage that is on the for sale section - Jackie Ellis is selling it, it used to belong to me, very light weight, think its around 80kg and my 33" used to pull it with ease but as she was a mini, it was a bit big in proportion to her (and she likes a 2 wheeler with no groom!!) but it would suit 35/36" shettie definitely! | ||
| Tara Hill Username: Tarahill Registered: 05-2009 |
Thanks for your answers. It would be great to have a 'starter' vehicle that's between £1,000 to £1,500 that's around the 75kg mark for the smaller single ponies of around the 35"/36" mark | ||
| Nicolette Hughes Username: Nicolettepurple Registered: 03-2010 |
My daughter drives a 38 inch shetland to a 96kg 4 wheeler indoor and outside at inside out events, she does very well and regualryl beats much bigger ponies! We keep the groom weight to 10st or under and daughter is only 12 yrs so not heavy. (our vehicle is unbraked). Good luck. | ||
| Janet Sycamore Username: Janets Registered: 10-2006 |
You would be very lucky to find a carriage under 70kg that has has been built strong enough to withstand the stress & wear that a carriage goes under during competition driving ...yes even shetlands can give a carriage a hard time ! unless it was built from an all aluminium chassis ..a very expensive material to work with & therefore push the price out of most peoples reach Carriage manufacturers will all agree that you cannot compromise on safety & durability for the sake of saving 5 or so kilos of weight We still use the very first 4 wheeler we built for IHDT with a pair of 34 inch ponies which weights 70/75 kilos & they go like a pair of turbo charged rockets in it! if we removed the brakes ... not a good idea & some of the panel work it would be lighter but my personal opinion is you can go too light & risk the whole outfit becoming too unstable The quality of build & design should always be reflected in the price you pay Good luck in your search for that perfect carriage !Nigel Sycamore ( see our advert on Dragon Driving ) | ||
| Tara Hill Username: Tarahill Registered: 05-2009 |
Is there any manufacturers that produce a 4 wheeler suitable to IHDT that weighs in under 70kg? If not, with the increase in people using their Shetlands in this sport, I would have thought that (as long as it's not priced out of the market), Shetland owners would be biting their hands off for such a vehicle! |