| Author | Message | ||
     Sue Starnes Posted From: 86.137.0.147 |
I think it's a brilliant idea to run a Club class. It can be very daunting for newcomers to have to compete against more experienced people and this is a good way forward - they can see just how close they would have come which can be good for moral! It also means there is more money going into the sport and helping with the cost of hiring the indoor school. In the South East we have lots of keen competitors and each event is full to bursting even without a Club class, but the Oaks Driving Club do hold two indoor events each winter which are just for beginners and novices. These are very laid back events where the P & P judges will allow the test to be called, and where there are always plenty of experienced people who are available to help if needed. I know that not every area would have enough beginners and novices to be able to run an event like this but it is another way forward. I am pleased that the rule change re. heights has been put on hold for this season. I can see the need for some sort of change and would suggest that comments are asked for in the next edition of the newsletter - the debate on this website has been very interesting but not everyone has access to it. I would like to add my support for the IHDT committee and the hard work they put into the sport - I was at Golden Cross on Saturday and thoroughly enjoyed the competiton. Well done, everyone. | ||
| Fiona Powell Username: Fionap Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks, Dick! What a laugh... We all had a great time in East Anglia region on Sunday - 22 entries (20 competed) of which 19 were pony and 3 horse, including a single of 16.2hh (former Reserve Regional Champion) and a horse pair (which would have been second in the multiples class on penalties if they'd completed the cones in the right order!) Two of my usual horse drivers were away and I have one newcomer horse promised next time. I've always run an extra "Club" Class in this region and it's been a very good way to encourage newcomers because it divides the Novice Pony class (altho' it's for any turnout), gives everyone better competition and the chance of a rosette at their first event. This matters when you first start competing! The only downside is that you don't get qualifying points or see the results on the website - but it's really intended for people who probably aren't quite up to qualifying this season anyway. It's worked well so far. What do you think? | ||
| Alan Posted From: 212.100.250.214 |
The Chairman has had his fun so now back to reality! THE HEIGHT RULE has not been altered. 14.2hh is the standard height change and has not suffered a Rule change for this season. We now know what you, the competitor wants!!! There will possibly be class changes next season, but this winter we run under the rules as in the Year Book. What a cop-out! If you want to know what competitors want, why not just ask them rather than play silly games. In any case the responses that you have got are from a small number of horse drivers and large pony drivers so its not representative of the overall competitor base. If, on the other hand, this was intended to be serious and I guess that we the competitors will never know for sure, why not be grown-up, come clean and admit a mistake was made. In any case an apology is due to all competitors for the way this whole sorry episode has been handled. | ||
| Martyn Willis Posted From: 195.93.21.8 |
Thank you for listening to us and leaving the rules alone. Please can you take on board the concept of not changing the rules between the 1st September and the Indoor finals? By all means propose/suggest rule changes during this period for discussion for those who can not get to the meeting at the finals. We understand the need for the board to make changes for the good of the sport but on the other hand you have to concider your competitors and what they want from the sport. Thank you again for all the hard work and effort we have a great competition for the winter. | ||
| JACKIE ELLIS Posted From: 84.66.75.33 |
THANK GOODNESS COMMON SENSE HAS PREVAILED!!! I WILL STILL COMPETE AGAINST "HORSES"!!! THANK YOU IHDT COMMITTEE FROM ALL THE "HORSE" DRIVERS | ||
| IHDTC Office Username: Ihdtcoffice Registered: 01-2003 |
This subject has been a question of debate for some time but we wanted to know what you, the competitors thought. Now we know!! Please check the News page on this site. NO results have been changed, all points stay the same. Some classes are well filled giving good competition while others only have 2 -3 competitors. The Indoor Team are looking to the future, to make for good competition for everyone. You have all made your feelings clear so now lets have some good ideas on how the various classes should be defined, or better still lets have a better mix of horses and ponies. Just one point - we are called Indoor Horse Driving Trials UK NOT Club or Association. | ||
| katie Bell Posted From: 195.92.194.12 |
Im 13 years old and I drive a 14.1hh PONY and if i was showjumping then i would be a pony so howcome when i'm carriage driving i have to compete as a horse.If i wanted to drive a horse i would buy a horse.This winter i will drive as a novice horse and next summer outdoors i will drive as a novice pony. Which to me doesn't make any sence .I don't think it's a good idea. | ||
| Mark Bell Posted From: 195.92.194.12 |
I'm 15 years old and I drive a 14.1hh PONY not a HORSE and i competed last year indoors with the same pony and now this i'm going to drive her as a horse. There was alot of competition last year which i like so why this year do i have to compete as a open horse. i think that the rules should stay the same. In my opinion i think it's not a good idea . | ||
| katie Bell Posted From: 195.92.194.12 |
Im 13 years old and I drive a 14.1hh PONY and if i was showjumping then i would be a pony so howcome when i'm carriage driving i have to compete as a horse.If i wanted to drive a horse i would buy a horse.This winter i will drive as a novice horse and next summer outdoors i will drive as a novic pony. Which to me doesn't make any sence to me.I don't think it's a good idea. | ||
| Blodwen Posted From: 80.225.48.181 |
I agree with the last post, and judging by the strength of feeling here, it is starting to sound like a case for the Joint Measurement Board ........ let's not go there!! A passport is not a height certificate, so using this method depends on a degree of goodwill amongst competitors. This is unlikely to occur smoothly at the moment, given the late, undebated nature of this rule change. It doens't affect my classification at all, but I do hope it is resolved soon, for everyone's sake. | ||
| Alison Coote Posted From: 86.135.218.231 |
Using passports for height is going to be fun as well. I have two ponies. For one, the passport states her height as 145 cm, so IHDTA will have to decide the conversion from 14 hands, as many passports give heights in cm. The other pony's passport gives 'approximate adult height' based on her vaccination certificate - which was filled in when she was 2 months old!! (It states 14.2, she actually measures 14.1). Then we have a Welsh section A whose passport doesn't state a height at all - only 'not exceeding 12 hands'. Admittedly this last will not be affected by the ruling... but! | ||
| Kym Posted From: 80.194.194.126 |
Opps this could have been a mistake but is it really kind of us to start getting angry. I agree the rule change is silly but I don't agree on naming names/ or arguing about it. I think that we should give the indoor carriage driving company a rosette of their own for giving us something to do with our horses/ponies during winter. What happened to having a bit of fun when did things get so competitive. | ||
| Frances and Ian Collings Posted From: 81.174.204.44 |
Being blissfully unaware of the rule change I received an email this morning to enlighten me. My reaction was 'oh great at last we will not be the only one in the class'. In all honesty it is more fun to have some competition, however, surely you cannot change a rule after the season has started! Perhaps a solution would be for more people with horses to enter!! | ||
| Erica Rye Posted From: 213.78.98.221 |
So I didn't win after all at Yorkley? Am I destined never to have a red rosette? Making a rule change after the season has started is guaranteed to upset people. Was there no discussion about this? I'm glad to see our area organiser(Wales/Gloucester) is ignoring this rather puzzeling rule change. | ||
| MARK Posted From: 212.100.111.180 |
Could we please have an official decision on this ruling posted on the forum. | ||
| Michael Wall Posted From: 86.139.1.87 |
As the organiser of the events for Wales/Gloucester region I am at a loss for words that a new rule is being introduced after our first event, which alters the result of classes at that event quite drastically, and has caused a lot of bad feeling. Are we a democratic organisation? if so, there is a place for discussing such things, and if there is a justification for change so be it, but please, not after we have started the season. We are going to ignore this "ruling" in this area and carry on under existing horse/pony sizes in the hope that common sense will prevail. Michael Wall | ||
| jackie ellis Posted From: 84.66.1.131 |
I compete with a 16.1hh (don't know what he is in new money!) clydesdale cross, I really don't think we could hope to be competative against 14hh ponies..........does anyone really think this will help moral in the Horse Class? I thought we were meant to be encouraging Horse entries not Putting drivers off!! | ||
| Martyn Willis Posted From: 195.93.21.8 |
I've worked out why this rule change has come about. It is because of this new rule. 4.4 Drivers may compete in two classes at an event and will qualify from both. Someone somewhere has a little and a large pony they want to compete and qualify. Lets keep the heights where they are and get rid of this rule of being able to compete in two classes. If you want to take two horses/ponies to an event you compete the second HC as you would in any other HDT. | ||
| Loyal Fan Posted From: 195.92.67.70 |
As a hardened supporter and previous competitor I am amazed by this rule. Who on earth thought this was a good idea? Why on earth is it even necessary? Split the pony classes as suggested - it's so simple. Well done everyone for making your feelings known - hopefully the rule will go back to where it belongs, the Think Tank!! Come on IHDTA lets have official word on the matter. | ||
| Bev Huntington Posted From: 80.4.224.4 |
I have just had a conversation with the IHDTC to discuss the new height ruling and the feedback from the competitors and organisers alike. It was agreed that a final decision on the height ruling would take place after the weekend when two more events had been observed and opions from organisers had been heard. The IHDTC advised that I should post results as usual under the old height rules, and that a final decision would be made on the future use of the height rule. We discussed an alternative method of splitting the pony class into small and large pony, which seemed a fair compromise to me. That would result in 2 ponies from the Open Pony Class going to the final, which I thought would be a fair solution. The IHDTC also agreed that a full debate on the height issue would have been the better solution, and may well debate it in full at the Championships. | ||
| Stacey Posted From: 80.47.113.119 |
I appreciate it is the decision of the IHDTA, but surely it is easier to have all the ponies(14.2hh and under)in a class and all the horses in another,just as in any other equine event.Instead of a 'horse' that is technically a pony, but just in a horse class.Why change it, it causes too much confusion. | ||
| Fiona Powell Username: Fionap Registered: 12-2003 |
I'm running an event on Sunday (23 Oct) and, having already sent out times for "old-style" classes on Monday, I made an executive decision not to change anyone's class or start time as they are my friends (I think) and I want to keep them that way (and not spend another hour re-doing the times). We shall run the classes and issue rosettes according to the old classes and I shall give Dick Carey (brave man) all the height details from the entry forms so the placings for points for the league will be decided according to the new classes. Sound reasonable? One of the many strengths of the Indoor Driving Team is that they can make decisions and take action quickly... and we benefit from this! We must all be scrupulously honest about the size of our animals because Dick told me this is all because of some doubts about the height of some highly placed animals. And he said 14 hands (140cms, Martyn) and under are ponies (so Toby, no need to wear down your shoes). I recount his exact words here because Dick's PC is out of action so he's missing all this. Give him a call! | ||
| MikeWatts Posted From: 80.176.138.26 |
Henry, the rule change newsletter on the Equifor site is signed by Dick Carey. While I personally think the rule change would be a mistake and the manner of its [attempted?] introduction wrong, I respect all the work and time Dick and all the indoor team put into the sport and am sure they're trying to improve the sport and will listen...especially as I think he's coming along to our event on Sunday where we'll make sure he gets a copy of all the opinions on this forum [not sure if his PC is working]... | ||
| MARK Posted From: 81.103.146.249 |
WANTED 14H HORSE,SORRY I MEAN PONY,NO WAIT A MINUTE HORSE. NO I KNOW A PORSE OR MAYBE HONY. | ||
| Henry Posted From: 81.103.146.249 |
Would someone from the IHDTA please have the guts to put their name to the rule change | ||
| MARK Posted From: 81.103.146.249 |
RESULTS SPARSHOLT BEFORE THE RESULTS WERE CHANGED. NOVICE PONY ONLY 3 POINTS SEPERATED 1ST AND 2ND PLACE,THAT'S WHAT I CALL A COMPETITION.HOWEVER THE RESULTS HAVE NOW CHANGED. 2ND PLACE IN NOVICE PONY NOW BECOMES 1ST PLACE IN NOVICE HORSE BY A MASSIVE 22 POINTS,THAT'S NOT A COMPETITION THAT'S A WHITE WASH. THE SAME HAS HAPPENED IN THE OPEN CLASS. THIS NOW MEANS WE HAVE A PONY LEADING ALL 4 CLASSES. THIS RULE CHANGE WILL TURN AN EXCITING COMPETITION INTO A FORGONE CONCLUSION. PLEASE SUPPORT THIS ARGUMENT BY POSTING YOUR FEELINGS | ||
| Sue Starnes Posted From: 86.137.0.147 |
I've just read the newsletter on the Equifor site and it's official, Toby is a horse. What rubbish! | ||
| Foto-forum Posted From: 80.4.224.4 |
What is going on?? Are ponies no longer ponies but large horses?? Results from Sparsholt last weekend saw 2nd place Robert Ellis in Nov Pony now winner of the horse class and the Open Horse winner is now Caroline Douglas, with Im not really sure claire Hichison taking 2nd place, her pony is 14 Hands but we seem to have a grey area to whether this is a horse or pony? Claire represented us at the National Final from the Wessex and was pretty much unbeaten all season, managing a 3rd at the final, where is the disadvantage? Proof is in the pudding, the larger pony is not disadvantaged, they have been our previous champions, Ace for one was unbeatable! Please please please can we debate this and not just have it inflicted on us, it makes a nonsense of the Novice and Open Horse Champions of 2006 as they could actually be ponies. There will always be advantage to be had by the size of your horse or pony, lets not muck about with it!! I am now having emails from competitors asking for the new placings, confussion or what! I have a small horse so not so disadvantaged by the rule change too much, although I did drop 2 places from the placings dished out at Sparsholt, how fair is it on the larger horses. Come on IHDTC let debate at least!! | ||
| Sue Starnes Posted From: 86.137.0.147 |
Whoopee! I'm just rushing out to measure Toby who I bought as 14hh but have never checked. If he's a whisker over I can join the horse class at Golden Cross on Saturday which only has 3 entries!! And he always wanted to be a horse when he grew up! Seriously though, if balancing the entries (on Saturday only 3 out of 30 entries are horses) is what it's all about it would be far better to split the pony classes. It is rather nonsensical to drive an animal that is a pony when competing outdoors but turns into a horse when taken indoors. And making a rule change once the season has started is just asking for trouble; it's guaranteed to upset people. I like driving my pony, and we like competing against other ponies and their drivers. If I'd wanted a horse I would have bought one. | ||
| Henry Posted From: 81.103.217.115 |
Does anyone know if this ridiculous rule change will effect the results at SPARSHOLT last sunday. | ||
| MARK Posted From: 81.103.217.115 |
I have to agree with the majority,ponies shouldn't be mixed with horses.There are to many grey area's. Splitting the ponies into 2 seperate classes is definately the best option. | ||
| MikeWatts Posted From: 80.176.138.26 |
I think it would be quite wrong to change a classification like this during a season and suggest it is held over as a proposal to be discussed at the annual meeting. Changing rules of a league/championship after people have started competing seems likely to cause aggravation/disenchantment. If IHDT insist on making the change for this season, can they at least make clear what the rule is; this site and Equifor give different versions. This site indicates that the rule change would apply only from 17th October [if that's what 2005-10-17-22-25-51 means], the newsletter on Equifor suggests it will be backdated and asks competitors from early events to contact Phil Nadin. This site indicates that animals 14.0h would be ponies, the newsletter says they would be horses. It's all too confusing. We need clarity [which can come from time for discussion] and we need people to have time to prepare which animals they enter for what. Please drop this for now and hold this over for discussion for next year. | ||
| Clanger Posted From: 192.85.50.2 |
In response to Lynne Hamilton. Firstly, regarding point one, please read the words on the page, not the ones you think it says. I did not say the majority, I said many. I'm not making a wild generalisation. WRT point two, this is a valid option and would be a good work around. For this "Large Pony" class, over 13.2hh is a good breakpoint as that is a natural split for the Welshies. Chris | ||
| Disgruntled Posted From: 81.103.219.151 |
Quick question - does the new rule apply to all day of Sunday 16th October or from when the new rule was posted on the "News" (i.e. 22.25pm). I find it astounding, unacceptable and bl***y irritating that the placings at Sparsholt may now be incorrect. WHAT'S GOING ON IDHTA!!! IT'S UTTER MADNESS AND WILL PUT ALOT OF US OFF ENTERING IN THE FUTURE. | ||
| Cathy Username: Cathy Registered: 11-2003 |
I feel that this rule change is going to cause more problems than anything. I have enough problems already with a 147cm cob pony who looks bigger. So if someone sees me entering indoors in horse and pony outdoor they will complain. Also the pony has an FEI passport which states Pony. So what happens to a tandem who has a 14.1hh wheeler and 13.3hh leader? is it horse or pony? | ||
| Lynne Hamilton Posted From: 81.103.144.221 |
I ve just read with interest the new rule change re: a pony is now 14hh and below. I raise the following comments: 1. To state that the majority of ponies 14hh and above are cobby and are unable to compete equally is complete nonsense. This is a breed issue NOT a height issue. To make such a wild generalisation and certainly to change a rule on the strength of it, is utter nonsense. What is ironic is that the big ponies feel disadvantaged against the smaller ponies yet they are happy to join the horse class where assumably they then will feel THEY have the advantage! 2. I assume the rule change has come about to balance the number of entries in each class. It won't affect the number of entries on the day. Why not split the pony class within itself to ponies 13.2hh and under and above 13.2hh compete against each other. That way the PONY classes would still be technically correct (a horse is NOT 14hh and above, never has been, never will be!). There will still be two ponies going through to the Nationals. Will the new class have a new title, it cannot now be called a Horse class. At the end of the day if you have a pony that struggles against the bigger ones, or indeed a big pony that struggles against the small ones, accept it, it's the same in all of the equestrian disciplines, or change your pony!! | ||
| Martyn Willis Posted From: 62.6.149.18 |
Where did this rule change come from? I've not heard any complaints about the size of Pony/Horse. We compete well with our pony who is 147cm sorry but I don't recognise hand measurement anymore. Our passport is an FEI one and it states she is a "PONY". Rule changes should be properly debated and brought in at the Start of the new season not once it has started. Sparshot last weekend had 9 in the open pony and 6 in the open horse class both competative. Looking at the results posted so far this season only one event has combined the open horse, pony class? I just can not see where the problem is? or is it a case of someone leaning on the indoor team. Please recind this rule change and stick with the "Official" classification we all understand. | ||
| Fiona Powell Username: Fionap Registered: 12-2003 |
My tuppence-worth, as an event organiser and competitor: 1) My pony's 14.1 and came third in the National Finals in Open Pony. Lynne Harrington's Ace was over 14 hands and she was Supreme Champion in 2003. Personally, I don't think a good big pony is worse off than a good small pony. 2) I took the view of encouraging horse drivers instead of discouraging pony drivers in my region. Now I sometimes have classes of 4 - 5 horses from 15.2 - 16.2. I don't think they'll be happy having to compete against 14.1 hand ponies, however cobby. Now I've only got 3 Open Pony, possibly 2 Novice Horse and 5 Open Horse. Oh, and one tandem that's one Horse and one Pony. I use a Club Class to subdivide Novice Pony class, then nearly everyone gets a rosette. 3) Dick knows my thoughts about changing rules without consultation or even being warned about it, and after some events have been run... I want to organise events that people will enjoy and understand, not get headaches from disgruntled competitors whose rules are being changed around them! Gnash, gnash... | ||
| Clanger Posted From: 192.85.50.2 |
Personally, I think that this is a very good amendment to the rules, for the following reasons: ***Many of the ponies over 14hh are cobby in build and find it difficult to compete on equal terms with the 13hh ponies. ***It will make the classes more even; instead of having 15 or so ponies entering competitions and only a couple of horses, it should make the class sizes more even. ***As we are about one month into the season, there is no reason why it should not be possible to backdate this to the start of this season. What I would like to see as an amendment relating to this rule change would be a change in the qualification criteria for the Nationals. At the moment the top two ponies qualify, but only the top horse. As the class sizes should change this should be amended so that either the top two horses go through, or just the top pony. All in all, I give this change a Thumbs UP!! Opinions? Chris Laing | ||
| MikeWatts Posted From: 80.176.138.26 |
I just read this item on the News of this site: "***IMPORTANT RULE CHANGE - HORSE/PONY HEIGHT RE-CLASSIFICATION*** As of today the height limit of ponies competing indoors is 14 hands. Above 14 hands is now classified as a horse. /var/www/indoordriving/news/2005-10-17-22-25-51.txt)" Is this a joke? If it's seriously meant, it seems a very bad idea to me; we should stick to the BHDTA/FEI driving classifications and stay in line with outdoor except where there is a very good reason to differ. What's more any such rule change needs some notice and consultation - and not to be announced out of the blue 'as of today', after competitors have entered particular classes and schedules and even taken part in events for this season. It would seem utterly bizarre that a 14.1h pony would now compete as horse indoor [for part of this season] and pony outdoor, while a 14h pony remains a pony. If there is any different classification of height needed indoors, which I doubt from the results, a very small change may simply cause confusion without significant useful result. I hope this is a mistake. If not, I respectfully suggest withdrawing the change and discussing at the meeting next March if needs be. PS - we have a 14.1h pony, and while he might well have an advantage if moved into horse indoors, I don't think it's a good idea. |