| Author |
Message |
    
Carole Redgrave
Username: Caroleredgrave
Registered: 12-2009
| | Posted on Friday, 18 January, 2013 - 08:36 pm: | |
Well said Helen. It's hard enough finding judges to start with. If they think they're going to get slated for their opinions, it will be even harder! |
Helen Bridges
Username: Helenb
Registered: 08-2011
| | Posted on Thursday, 17 January, 2013 - 12:29 pm: | |
I've done a bit of dressage judging,enjoyed it ,learned a lot.you can only judge WHAT YOU SEE on the day. i had a competitor question me once,i politely explained what i had observed and all was well.i will say if folks moan to much about judges they will not wish to be involved,just do your best and be glad your competing with your lovely turnout ! |
Mike Lawson
Username: Mikel
Registered: 02-2011
| | Posted on Thursday, 17 January, 2013 - 10:32 am: | |
Having been a keen follower of the indoor from day one as a competitor, steward,coursebuilder and general dogsbody I dont see as there is a problem as no two judges score exactly the same, so you scored a 4 for whatever the judge should be useing the same format for everybody on the day. So we all have a moan about the scores, if you are a few inches off line thats a point gone. And please remember most of these judges do this and only charge a cup of tea or two on a wet/cold morning instead of stopping in a nice warm bed
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Dilys Gordon
Username: Dilys_gordon
Registered: 01-2013
| | Posted on Wednesday, 16 January, 2013 - 10:19 pm: | |
Thanks Jenny and Alan for your responses, which I totally take on board. My posting came about as a result of being in a room with many drivers who were sounding their discontent, wishing for change but not willing to make a statement. I was an independent visitor, with allegiance to nobody, with an unbiased understanding of the problem. This is a relatively young sport, but with a National Championship, and that which can be changed for the benefit of the sport, making it fairer and more uniform, has to be good.
I apologise if you feel I was critical of the judge, it was not my intention, neither was I whinging but making an observation with the ball now lying in the court of the IHDT.
Dilys Gordon |
Alan Hodges
Username: Alan
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, 16 January, 2013 - 06:49 pm: | |
Give us a rest from the whinging. It’s starting to get like the irritating Harry Enfield character who would say “That’s not the way to do it, this is the way to do it”
Dilys, if you have a problem with the opinion of a judge and consider you have a greater knowledge and experience then why not volunteer to do the job yourself. It’s only once or twice a month and then the marking will be to your high standard. |
Jenny Moon
Username: Jennym
Registered: 01-2012
| | Posted on Wednesday, 16 January, 2013 - 05:35 pm: | |
Whilst appreciating where Dilys is coming from we do need to be realistic. If we were to accept that the precision score(s) were harsh, it was the same for everyone, and as grownups we should be able to compare our scores and realise this. Nothing can be perfect, particularly in a dressage test, which by definition is the most subjective part of the competition. As I understand it, marking the precision “harshly” would bias the dressage section in favour of a horse with good paces relative to their precision score. As an example, if somebody scored 70 for each section of the test their combined score would be 30. If their precision had been marked at 50 the combined score would be 40. (A difference of 10 points). By comparison, reviewing our obstacle performance over the last events at Merrist Wood and Sparsholt our combined obstacle times were 95 at one and 120 at the other. This suggests that the obstacles at one event were considerably “faster” than the other, and consequently represented a different proportion of the overall competition score to the tune of 25 points, therefore “biasing” the event with the longer obstacle times towards that section.
I am sure there is no intention to criticise an individual but this thread could be read as such, and that is unfortunate. Critically, we should be very grateful to all involved in organising these events and to the judges that turn up and sit in the cold, without whom we would have no competition to discuss.
Jenny & Neil
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Dilys Gordon
Username: Dilys_gordon
Registered: 01-2013
| | Posted on Wednesday, 16 January, 2013 - 11:05 am: | |
Thanks for your support Jackie. I note that you received a '23' for precision and yet, at Merrist Wood on the past 3 occasions you have received 17.5, 21, and 25.5 but these scores were COMBINED precision and paces....an average 21.3 COMBINED, almost 2 penalties less than your single precision this fateful day. The 2nd worst score given,32.5, was minus 14.5 on a previous precision score and happened to be my afore mentioned '1' for the final 'good' movement. The highest score of the day was '14' for a gent who had previously posted 9.5 and 15.5. The closest to him on the day was 17.5. The 20 other drivers, previously having driven at this venue this year, were all very sadly marked ridiculously lower. Where is the incentive to continue. Please IHDT address the situation, at least for next season.
Dilys Gordon |
Jackie Ellis
Username: Jackieellis
Registered: 01-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, 15 January, 2013 - 06:47 pm: | |
Thank you for standing up to be heard Dilys, I would not normally stick my head above the parapet either, but we competed at the above mentioned event last Sunday & were puzzled to say the least at our marks. We have had very good p&p scores all season at Merrist Wood and to seemingly drop so many marks left me wondering where i had gone wrong! As Dilys says, it changed everyones perspective of the event, but not positively. Please IHDT listen to a very respected Judges point of view. |
Dilys Gordon
Username: Dilys_gordon
Registered: 01-2013
| | Posted on Monday, 14 January, 2013 - 01:53 pm: | |
Uniformity is needed.
Having spent a Sunday morning last week, spectating at a wonderful, well organised, innovative Indoor Trials, watching many enthusiastic drivers having lots of fun, I was left shocked and saddened by the shockingly low 'precision' marks. They just did not reflect the quality of accuracy shown. There was much grumbling amongst the drivers, nearly all of whom received their lowest score of the season by a long way.
It is not good enough to say "It's the same for everyone" when all things are considered. By reducing the precision marks by such a drastic amount the ratio of the competition completely changes so that the final score relies very much on the scores of the cones and obstacles.
Drivers work hard to progress their marks throughout the season. How deflating to find the average score a '5' with all lower marks in frequent incorrect use. To see a '1' being given for a final movement (which I considered was the most accurate shown to that point)was a travesty of justice, disappointing and just not fair!
What happened was not entirely the fault of the judge, it lies with IHDT. Insufficient or no guidance is given to the mere mortals who suffer the position of 'precision judge', most often collared as they are friends or relatives of our driving community. Their knowledge of marking and giving a correct relevant score is often minimal, if at all.
Please, please, IHDT, can some rules / guidelines be drawn up and displayed on this site and may each judge be handed a copy before judging commences. There are 2 very easy movements to judge across the diagonals. The clean, straight tracks can usually be seen point to point. How could these warrant anything less than an '8'yet we saw marks of '6' and below? Was there any driver not devastated that day?
Dilys Gordon |
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