| Author | Message | ||
     Brian Cairns Username: Brianc Registered: 11-2013 |
Hi i am new to the indoor forum but i was interested to read the posts regarding dressage tests.With regard to collection i feel it has no place in a novice horse test,whether it is indoors or outdoors. Collection is the ultimate advanced movement for ridden horses, so why are driven horses expected to collect when pulling a carriage and two people.I watched the world pony championships and could not spot any true collection, where the horse lowers its croup and raises its withers, drivers only slow the horse down and pull it onto the forhand. Collection can only be achieved with the proper foundation and the correct training over a long period of time. Surely its time for the judges to have a rethink, for the benefit of the horse and our sport in general. | ||
| Diane Hogben Username: Dianeh Registered: 10-2013 |
Is there a reason why there is only one p&p test? Surely it could be worked that there is a class for novices (like me!!) and then a different test for the more experienced? Or am I missing something? | ||
| Janet Username: Janetw Registered: 10-2008 |
I disagree with wording for the salute for gentlemen. If you compete in showing classes or Driving Trials the correct way for a salute is to take the reins and whip in left hand, right hand goes as if to take hat off and then extend arm out and imagine you have a hat in your hand and imagine you have the hat upside down wait 2 to three seconds and then replace the imaginary hat. | ||
| Tara Hill Username: Tarahill Registered: 05-2009 |
Well said Emily! Even though I drive Shetlands, I was looking forward to version two of the test. Big challenge, but one worth putting in the extra time and effort to! | ||
| Tabe Annema Username: Tabe Registered: 10-2010 |
To keep everybody happy, is there any merit in using the simpler test for the novice classes and the same test but with the extensions and collections (the original test) for the open classes?? The "precision" judge still looks at the same test, it is only the "Paces" judge that needs to be aware which class they are judging and what they should expect of that class. | ||
| Alan Hodges Username: Alan Registered: 10-2006 |
"Halt, Salute. Correct salute for gender" The last sentence is stepping on dangerous ground. It seems to be some sort of petty point scoring. | ||
| Goldie Francis Username: Goldief Registered: 03-2013 |
Lovely generous idea, Maria. Just a thought: although it is the same test each event, with different judges and their standards, it would not necessarily be a 'level playing field' overall. | ||
| Goldie Francis Username: Goldief Registered: 03-2013 |
I struggled to find a rationale for using one of the Finals' tests for allcomers this Indoor Season. It was good to have a challenge at the Finals, but I cannot see how such a test would not be intimidating to those new to the competition. Scenario: Driver (and possibly horse/pony) new to sport, likes the idea of competing at Indoor competitions. Probably not had many dressage lessons nor been judged before, but excited to give it a go. They would probably be dismayed to see at what level they have to start and this could put them off. It is after all meant to be fun as well. The majority of drivers stess over dressage anyway but to have the added pressure of starting at a higher level would surely make matters worse. Most are competitive but the fact that they are not up to the expected standard is demoralising and obviously not good for those judging or watching. It would probably make sense to have a less demanding test for Club Class, pre-novice and possibly novice, with a more challenging test for others. Or, after Christmas bring in a new test for those who have been achieving points so that they can up their game aiming towards the Finals. It's fine for those who have experience to accept challenges but we need to be sympathetic to encourage those coming into the sport and those at lower levels. | ||
| Ginny White Username: Ginnyw Registered: 11-2006 |
Although my earlier pos still stands I also agree with Emily that if you can, you do and as my daughter says driving our youngster i'll have a go but if he can't we won't. Angela as a returning driver made a comment that it seems focused on those clever enough to get to Keysoe. I have no idea on the percentage of competitors that go to Keysoe, but I have qualified for the past 4 years as novice intermediate and now open, enjoying every minute of it, and 100% haven't got there with my dressage! my pony hates collection and can't extend to save his life but loves obstacles. And I've wasted 4 bits of paper printing out the test! are we save to print this one?? looking forward to Oct!  | ||
| Maria Keady Username: Mariakeady Registered: 10-2010 |
How about this for an idea? As an extra challenge I am willing to sponsor a trophy and some prize money for the best dressage score or collective dressage scores for one turnout over the 2013/14 season. This prize could be presented at the national finals. Just an idea, what do people think? I will have to get the blessing from IHDTC headquarters and obviously finalise specifics with them. | ||
| Lisa Emery Username: Lisae Registered: 02-2010 |
well said guys I also agree with last few comments | ||
| Jo Chandler Username: Joc Registered: 02-2011 |
Hi, I'm a novice driver with a novice pony but I tend to agree with Emily. I thought the test looked intimidating and my daughter, who's a good rider said it was tough. I don't think my Shetland x is physically capable of 4 levels of trot but so long as we were marked for showing an attempt at varying the paces I would have been satisfied and as Emily said, it would give the advanced drivers a chance to show us why they are better. If I've read it right, we now have no collected trot at all. | ||
| Rachelle Bownes Username: Rachellebownes Registered: 02-2010 |
Well said Emily I agree with all your comments and I thought the test was a great chance to better myself and was a tad disappointed when it changed. I am all for encouraging newcomers and novices it is such a fantastic sport but can also understand the open and multiple drivers needing a more challenging test. Sadly I guess it is very hard to please everyone and fully support the organisers final decision. | ||
| Emily Ham Username: Wearedunfour Registered: 01-2013 |
I may be the one sticking my neck on the line here, I do not normally rock the boat but I cannot be the only one who is disappointed to see that dressage test has been dumbed down. Whilst ‘adjusting’ it may make it seem more appealing for novices/novice pony drivers it does present less of a challenge to the higher categories. If you bear in mind that all novices would be in a similar predicament then they would be similarly scored, like for like. If I was driving this with my youngster and he was not able to create the paces necessary I would attempt to show a difference or consider sacrificing the marks for those movements, either way you can still be accurate but I would not expect him to be on a parr and scoring similarly to the experienced ponies, and nor should he be, or it makes a mockery of the whole thing! I realise in driving it is slightly harder to make a fair playing field due to the driver being graded in classification rather than the animal they are driving. However by making the test that bit easier it means the better schooled horses in, say, the open classes have less opportunity to demonstrate their ability. This could be the difference in results for those classes (where most are very quick in obstacles too). The Open class competitors need to have a chance to differentiate paces during the season or the standard of their test bears little meaning until the final and good dressage ponies may have been inadvertently filtered out. Ultimately the Opens would be expected to be scoring fuller marks than the Novices, so whilst this altered new test does seem more inviting to the beginners, it is a back ward step for the higher level classes. This will be probably be assumed as a bias of mine as I am lucky enough that my boys have a good range of paces (I was genuinely excited about the test asking for 4 trots - as well as draft animal can) and it was nice for a change to be able to demonstrate them on the indoor circuit as before now you rarely could until you got to the finals. In ridden dressage people have the enjoyment of competing their level of test they are expected to perform at the finals, maybe in that respect it could be time for IHDTC to have an open level test and a novice test throughout the season… However, at the end of the day one test was perfectly feasible. It was not the situation as last year where long multiple turnout would struggle to perform the movements required. I expect many will find in hindsight that the final movement would have been easier in collected trot anyway despite their concern. This is by no means getting at the organisers of IHDTC as I appreciate that the competitors need to feel they are being catered for. Nor is this meant to sound patronising or vindictive towards anyone – They are simply observations and an alternative perspective. | ||
| Angela Cherrington Username: Angelac Registered: 10-2003 |
I'm sure the revised test is a good thing. Novice riding horses would never be expected to show extended trot. Thankyou for the rethink. A challenge with any sport is how to continue to keep the interest of those that have gained experience while remaining encouraging and welcoming to newcomers and novices, and also valuing each of these competitors equally for what they bring to the sport - everyone is needed. | ||
| Maria Keady Username: Mariakeady Registered: 10-2010 |
Thank you for the rethink of the new seasons test. I'm sure it will attract a lot of newbies to the indoor season and encourage some drivers back. Hopefully leading to even more starters and another enjoyable winter in 2013/14! | ||
| Brendan Keady Username: Brendank Registered: 08-2013 |
To: IHDTC OFFICE OR TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN (as no name supplied) All the IHDTC had to furnish was a "fair and level playing field for all competitors" not a test biased towards advanced horses and drivers! Supercillious and patronising remarks are not required. Please note, improvement comes with practice and experience. If a higher standard test is required, introduce a second test for Intermediate drivers upwards. Everyone's happy!! | ||
| Mike Watts Username: Mikew Registered: 10-2006 |
Issue 3 of the test as below now on the website | ||
| IHDTC Office Username: Ihdtcoffice Registered: 01-2003 |
P&P TEST 2013 As some less experienced drivers thought the P&P test for the coming season just too difficult with a small amount of extended and collected trot there has been a few changes made, making this a simple test. Sadly I can not put the changes on this page, they will be added to the var/www page soon. The changes are: Movement 3: Working Trot Movement 4: Walk Movement 9: Working not collected Lengthened Strides not Extended Movement 10: Working not collected Trot. At the Halt the correct salute for gender must be made, if you do not know the correct salute look it up! But do not let it be said we do not educate! Gentlemen whips need not remove their protective hard hats but must put both reins and the whip in left hand and with the right hand touch the peak of hat whilst bowing the head. Ladies you must put both reins in your left hand, bow your head and with your right hand lift the whip horizontal (length of whip to elbow must be horizontal) to the brim of your hat. Take a little time with your salute as you are in fact being very polite by a recognised manner and thanking the judges for their time and judging your test. Providing your working trot is excellent, the halt square and immobile plus the correct salute you can get a 10 for this movement, that just leave 9 other movements for you to perfect. | ||
| Angela Cherrington Username: Angelac Registered: 10-2003 |
Of course we are all thankful to the people who give their time to plan and run the events and most of us have given time to equestrian activities in this way over the years. For such people, fewer things are more disappointing than people not attending after you have put in so much effort. | ||
| Fiona Powell Username: Fionap Registered: 12-2003 |
I believe that it's the nose of the (lead) horse that should be on the mark unless the test says otherwise... | ||
| Maria Keady Username: Mariakeady Registered: 10-2010 |
In the finals the pony's nose was at C. Just a quick comment, I appreciate all the hard work behind the scenes by ALL the volunteers and realise that it is unpaid and a labour of love. Thank you to getting the test and diagram ready. I don't mean to be unappreciative of this with my comment but just feel that , yes I'm repeating myself, it's going to put some competitors off. | ||
| Martin Pink Username: Martinpink Registered: 09-2008 |
On movement 4,the 5 second halt is it Pony's nose at C or front axle as in previous years ? | ||
| Tabe Annema Username: Tabe Registered: 10-2010 |
Last night I came across MEDIUM TROT, I think it is the one before extended trot?? How come that one missed out??? Passage and piaffe next year, may be!?? | ||
| Angela Cherrington Username: Angelac Registered: 10-2003 |
Maybe we could have a Novice test for the Novices. Now there's a radical thought. I had a long time out due to a serious cancer journey. Coming back, things have changed a bit. It seems now to be focused on the people clever enough to get to Keysoe. We need to remember that beginners are the future and contribute entry fees to help keep it viable. Let's not frighten them off from even trying. I will shut up now! :-) | ||
| Ginny White Username: Ginnyw Registered: 11-2006 |
Sure we will all have fun how ever bad are tests are!, but what about the poor volunteer judges having to watch are attempts at 4 types of trot!!. Test us at the finals but surely we are meant to be encouraging new drivers to the sport, and young horses. The 15m circle at x looks quite straight forward the interpretation of the 2 loop serpentine could be fun. Hey ho another fun indoor season approaches lets hope the winter is shorter than 2012/13 and everyone have a lovely time. | ||
| Angela Cherrington Username: Angelac Registered: 10-2003 |
Those were exactly my thoughts too when I saw the test, but I thought it might just be me. Not very interesting 'shapes' and trot work too difficult for novice drivers/ponies. My late broken and 'new to the game' 5 year old has a working trot and I just might get a very little collection and lengthening on a good day. Extension is (quite rightly) beyond her at this stage. Although winning is of no consequence to me it is a bit disheartening to be faced with something I know we can't do from the outset. This has dampened my enthusiasm for the coming season  And I don't think it encourages new people to come and have a go. Maybe there are enough in the sport now so we don't worry about that? I think it was more fun in the beginning days when people came with the pony and carriage they had, and had a go at something new. | ||
| Tabe Annema Username: Tabe Registered: 10-2010 |
I quite agree with you Maria, 4 types of trot, takes the fun out of having a go, almost!!! | ||
| Maria Keady Username: Mariakeady Registered: 10-2010 |
This test seems harder than usual compared to previous years. I realise it is based on the novice test at the final but in indoor all standards of driver and horse have to be catered for from club to open, youngster to experienced open horse. Four types of trot is a little harsh and may even put some competitors off in an already dwindling number of entries in some areas. Just my opinion. Maria | ||
| Mike Watts Username: Mikew Registered: 10-2006 |
The P&P test has been updated on the website to correct typos: - remove extraneous M in movement 10 description. - confirm movement 9 starts CH Collected Trot (the text on the diagram was incorrect there, colour and main description were correct). (text and diagram show 'issue2 in lower right corner) Thanks to all who spotted typos. | ||
| Alan Hodges Username: Alan Registered: 10-2006 |
Number 9 on the diagrams C to H is the wrong colour | ||
| IHDTC Office Username: Ihdtcoffice Registered: 01-2003 |
Tabe is correct, M should not be in the last movement, will be rectified shortly | ||
| Tabe Annema Username: Tabe Registered: 10-2010 |
I think the last movement needs checking. The M might be inappropriate!!! | ||
| IHDTC Office Username: Ihdtcoffice Registered: 01-2003 |
Not long to wait now, just being verified. Will be posted asap along with dates etc. | ||
| Angela Cherrington Username: Angelac Registered: 10-2003 |
Was just wondering this myself today | ||
| Janet Username: Janetw Registered: 10-2008 |
Hi Can you tell me when will the new test be ready for downloading Thanks |