| Author | Message | ||
     Carole Whittam Username: Carolew Registered: 11-2013 |
Thank you Rita - did check before posting but it was how it was phrased/punctuated that caused confusion. Appreciate the clarification and look forward to the rest of the season. Stay well. | ||
| Rita Bundock Username: Roanmare Registered: 11-2007 |
Sadly my brain is now working quicker than my stiff fingers. Missed a couple of dots and capitals!! but as I keep saying please read the Rules. Dressage rules have been the same for as long as I can remember, and P&P is the basic form of dressage. I have had numerous emails this season with questions that can ALL be answered either on this website or within the Rules, this just takes up time which is limited when I can get on the computer. Sorry for any confusion that I have caused with these typo's | ||
| Carole Whittam Username: Carolew Registered: 11-2013 |
Apologies Rita, I somehow missed the information about Error of Course penalties being 5 on each occasion so ignore my query on this. (should have gone to Specsavers). Stay well | ||
| Carole Whittam Username: Carolew Registered: 11-2013 |
The first paragraph from ICD Office posted at 12.06 on 18th October states that an error of course is when, for example, a 20meter circle is driven instead of a 15 metre one - why then, if it is an EOC have I seen on dressage sheets very low precision marks for these movements indicating incorrect size and/or shape but no EOC penalties or bell rung? With outdoors, where you get comments, I've seen 'circle too small/large' with a correspondingly low mark - no EOC though.I fully understand the reasoning behind an EOC being given if the competitor loses his/her way or in any way forgets the test. What I don't understand is how an EOC can be given for an inacuracy of judgement when driving (another example) a deviation.Surely this is just lack of precision? Please also clarify the penalty scoring for a second EOC in indoor driving competitions - outdoors it's 10 penalties for the second one then elimination but in the ICD post 14th Oct it states 5 penalties for each EOC. Just checking Rita and many thanks for your help on this as my much thumbed rule book doesn't give me a satisfactory answer. | ||
| Rosemary Neale Username: Rosemaryn Registered: 03-2007 |
Sorry to be picky but that's not how your first post read Rita! So let's get this straight - if a competitor forgets a movement or does them in the wrong sequence or forgets where they are then it's an error of course - 5 penalties awarded. If they complete a movement but badly eg not at marker, wrong size circle, deviation too big or small then they should be marked accordingly by the precision judge for that movement. If they fail to show the required pace then that should be marked accordingly by the paces judge, even to the point of giving them a 0 because eg collection did not happen. Is this correct? | ||
| ICD Office Username: Ihdtcoffice Registered: 01-2003 |
An error of course is when the competitor does not complete the movements as stated, from marker to marker, the competitor goes off course - forgets where they should be or what the next movement is. THIS IS WHEN THE BELL WILL RING AND THE COMPETITOR IS ADVISED OF THE MOVEMENT THAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING BY THE PRECISION JUDGE. Walk, working trot, Collected - extended trot are ALL PACES and not a movement, the paces judge will mark this. Precision is accuracy,a movement is moving from the first stated marker to the last stated marker, possibly moving between other stated markers on the way, if the movement is not driven to the markers as stated then the precision judge marks the movement down accordingly. PLEASE READ THE RULES both ICD & BCd rules. These rules cover Dressage of which the Indoors P&P is the basic form of dressage with the aim of defining the paces and accuracy of the test so that the competitor can see if they are good or not so good in either precision or paces. Indoors these are judged independently OUTDOORS they are judged combined. | ||
| Carole Whittam Username: Carolew Registered: 11-2013 |
Just a query, then if we drive say, a 7 or 8 meter deviation instead of a 5 meter one does the bell sound for error of course and we commence the movement again? And if the rein back is for 4 paces and we do three then does the bell go a second time? Also, if an attepmt is made to get collection but not achieved, that means the correct movement wasn't shown so is that another error of course. Taken to it's logical conclusion, unless you drive each movement absolutely accurately then the potential is for many competitors to be eliminated for three errors of course after only maybe five or six movements. Not trying to be contentious, just trying to get things clear in my head. Many thanks. | ||
| ICD Office Username: Ihdtcoffice Registered: 01-2003 |
An error of course is when a competitor does not complete a movement correctly to the markers and of the correct size of movement (20m circle should be 15m and not 20m, deviation should be 5m but a 10m deviation is driven) as stated in the written P&P test, this should be marked accordingly by the Precision judge. The rein back is not straight or not correct number of strides/paces - the halt is not 5 seconds, then this also should be scored by the Precision judge. The Paces judge is responsible for marking the quality of the pace as set out in the P&P written test. If a competitor stays at working trot instead of doing collected trot then the score must be adjusted accordingly (this would be an unsatisfactory mark as collection not achieved)Please look at Rules for marks according to quality of pace or accuracy. Rein back the judge will look at the quality of the backward paces, also how square the actual halt is (for legs standing square as per table) ALL JUDGES should be well acquainted with the marking procedure before they start judging, paces judges should be able to define good paces and mark accordingly. I hope this helps some of the competitors acheive better marks, and clarifies for some organisers who do a fantastic job and without whom there would not be any events. Rita | ||
| Rosemary Neale Username: Rosemaryn Registered: 03-2007 |
Thank you for the clarification Rita. There is some discussion amongst judges as to what constitutes an error of course in P and P and what can be marked down as poor accuracy ? In the event it amounts to the same thing ie if a competitor halts at X rather than G is it an error of course? They of course will get a poor accuracy score but should they get 5 penalties as well? | ||
| ICD Office Username: Ihdtcoffice Registered: 01-2003 |
With regard to two competitors getting the same score at a qualifying event. It is the competitor that has the BEST OBSTACLE score that will be placed first NOT both competitors. The Points League will be shown as the above rule. If a two competitors have the same score at an OUTDOOR event (National or Club unless indiviual Clubs say otherwise within their own rules) then it is the MARATHON score that settles the issue. P&P (Dressage) errors of course. For every error of course there is a penalty of five points, after the third error of course the competitor is eliminated but will be allowed to complete the event without obtaining a qualifying score. This has been the Rules on these two matters for a very long time. New/Novice driver, and backsteppers should take the time to read the BCd rules as well as ICD rules to get the required knowledge of the sport. Any problems at a qualifying event should in the first instance be addressed to the event organiser and scorer at the time. |